The Witch King Flail Tattoo: A Gateway to Embracing Dark Magic

The Witch King Flail Tattoo is a visually striking and meaningful tattoo design that holds importance for those who choose to get it inked on their bodies. The Witch King, also known as the "Lord of the Nazgûl," is a character from J.R.R. Tolkien's "The Lord of the Rings" series. He is one of the prominent villains in the story, serving under the Dark Lord Sauron.

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Thresher flails seem quite reasonable for 2 handed use, I don t see why one would be at risk of hitting oneself, nor require any kind of set-up that would make it go last, the end bit is quite a bit shorter than the pole. Palm tattoos have been growing in popularity over the last few years, but people are still divided on the longevity of the pieces as well as how much they have to hurt.

He is one of the prominent villains in the story, serving under the Dark Lord Sauron. The design of the Witch King Flail Tattoo depicts a flail, a type of medieval weapon consisting of a chain or rope with a weighted end. It is associated with the Witch King as he wields a similar weapon in battle.

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So B/X mentions the flail as a two-handed weapon that automatically loses initiative at p. x4, but never gives cost or damage stats for it. How is it normally treated?

From a few different campaigns, I see that some people give certain advantages to 2 handed weapons, such as reach for spears when used 2 handed, reach for polearms (but only d6 dmg at reach unless there is no ceiling), etc. Battle axes have the advantage of being able to chop down wooden doors. Are flails reach weapons for clerics, but only if there is room to swing it? Do they have a higher chance to hit if there is room to swing because they can get around a shield or parry?

Re: Flail and Other 2 Handers

Post by tombowings » Sun Jan 31, 2021 4:23 pm

Re: Flail and Other 2 Handers

Post by Parzival » Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:46 pm

Here’s my take:
Flail: Dmg 1d6+1, M, Cost 7 gp, Enc 80, Unskilled use has a risk of self-injury; on a roll of 1, the whirling flail head strikes the user; Dex. save to avoid, or take 1d4 damage.

I will note that the jury is out on whether flails existed as military weapons in Medieval Europe, especially given the risk of self-injury— though certainly there were threshing flails, and it’s reasonable to assume that a peasant levy might show up with one as the best weapon he’s got. Plus, it would clearly hurt, which is probably the most compelling evidence to suggest they did exist.

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Re: Flail and Other 2 Handers

Post by skalding » Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:14 pm

IdleHands wrote: ↑ Sun Jan 31, 2021 3:01 pm So B/X mentions the flail as a two-handed weapon that automatically loses initiative at p. x4, but never gives cost or damage stats for it. How is it normally treated?

From a few different campaigns, I see that some people give certain advantages to 2 handed weapons, such as reach for spears when used 2 handed, reach for polearms (but only d6 dmg at reach unless there is no ceiling), etc. Battle axes have the advantage of being able to chop down wooden doors. Are flails reach weapons for clerics, but only if there is room to swing it? Do they have a higher chance to hit if there is room to swing because they can get around a shield or parry?

The simplicity/abstraction/flexibility of B/X is the best point of the game. So I wouldn't fold in too many particularized combat refinements, and those few should reflect the game world/flavor you're striving for. For example, if I did, I'd personally lean toward more "realistic" theatre of the mind, giving advantages for massed fighting, height, reach, charges, etc., rather than fiddly weapon mechanics in isolation.

Beyond that though, why do clerics need "reach weapons?" (And/or, why restrict them to blunt weapons?)

PS - I don't mean for that to sound unhelpful, I just really think there are bigger fish to fry.

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Re: Flail and Other 2 Handers

Post by cwslyclgh » Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:16 pm

AD&D flails deal 1d6+1, so I think 1d8 for B/X would be appropriate (rounding down to 1d6 makes no sense when you add the drawbacks of being 2 handed to the mix). As for cost, I'd put it around 8 gp

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Re: Flail and Other 2 Handers

Post by Phinagle » Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:57 am

It's BECMI instead of B/X, but in XL1-Quest for the Heartstone two of the pre-gens use Flails, and the damage given for them is 1d8. so that's what I've used for them. Also, just to put it out there, both chars are pictured using the flails with one hand.

Re: Flail and Other 2 Handers

Post by Parzival » Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:04 am

I don’t have my flail as two-handed.
But I also house rule that a 2H weapon only incurs a -1 to initiative, not an automatic loss. Never have understood where they came up with the latter idea, anyway, especially as it’s too big of an impediment in combat versus the minor damage increase (and back in the day, we ignored it outright).

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Re: Flail and Other 2 Handers

Post by SkinnyOrc » Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:26 am

IdleHands wrote: ↑ Sun Jan 31, 2021 3:01 pm So B/X mentions the flail as a two-handed weapon that automatically loses initiative at p. x4, but never gives cost or damage stats for it. How is it normally treated?

I've never noticed that mention of the flail on X4, seems like something that got missed in the editing. But I have had two handed flails in my game before, making them 1d8 so Clerics had the option of doing more damage at the cost of a shield.

tombowings wrote: ↑ Sun Jan 31, 2021 4:23 pm I give flails a d8 (like battle axe) if spiked, and d6 if not.

That begs the question, can Clerics use weapons with large spikes? I've always assumed that the maces they used are flanged but not with large spikes.

Parzival wrote: ↑ Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:46 pm I will note that the jury is out on whether flails existed as military weapons in Medieval Europe, especially given the risk of self-injury— though certainly there were threshing flails, and it’s reasonable to assume that a peasant levy might show up with one as the best weapon he’s got. Plus, it would clearly hurt, which is probably the most compelling evidence to suggest they did exist.

Believe the current thinking on a spiked ball on a chain being a real medieval weapon is pretty solid that they weren't. At best they were extremely rare. Good summary on that here. Real two-handed flails looked like this, as you said a peasant farm implement for threshing grain. Incidentally, ball and chain flails are often also called morningstars but those are maces with spikes like this (particularly the middle one).

cwslyclgh wrote: ↑ Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:16 pm AD&D flails deal 1d6+1, so I think 1d8 for B/X would be appropriate (rounding down to 1d6 makes no sense when you add the drawbacks of being 2 handed to the mix).

Are either of the AD&D flails two-handed? The horseman's flail certainly isn't, not sure about the footman's flail. I suspect these are the probably fake ball and chain types as well.

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Re: Flail and Other 2 Handers

Post by William Longsword » Mon Feb 01, 2021 2:19 am

cwslyclgh wrote: ↑ Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:16 pm AD&D flails deal 1d6+1, so I think 1d8 for B/X would be appropriate (rounding down to 1d6 makes no sense when you add the drawbacks of being 2 handed to the mix). As for cost, I'd put it around 8 gp

This is reasonable. I also like that it provides for 2 two-handed (d8) melee weapons and 2 two-handed (d10) melee weapons.

Parzival wrote: ↑ Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:46 pm I will note that the jury is out on whether flails existed as military weapons in Medieval Europe, especially given the risk of self-injury— though certainly there were threshing flails, and it’s reasonable to assume that a peasant levy might show up with one as the best weapon he’s got. Plus, it would clearly hurt, which is probably the most compelling evidence to suggest they did exist.

Quite so. Incidental (whether by necessity or affection)? Most assuredly. Widespread? I'm skeptical - tournament use notwithstanding:

SkinnyOrc wrote: ↑ Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:26 am Believe the current thinking on a spiked ball on a chain being a real medieval weapon is pretty solid that they weren't. At best they were extremely rare. Good summary on that here.

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Re: Flail and Other 2 Handers

Post by SkinnyOrc » Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:46 am

Parzival wrote: ↑ Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:46 pm I will note that the jury is out on whether flails existed as military weapons in Medieval Europe, especially given the risk of self-injury— though certainly there were threshing flails, and it’s reasonable to assume that a peasant levy might show up with one as the best weapon he’s got. Plus, it would clearly hurt, which is probably the most compelling evidence to suggest they did exist.

Quite so. Incidental (whether by necessity or affection)? Most assuredly. Widespread? I'm skeptical - tournament use notwithstanding:

Sure, the thresher style of flail may not have been used that much outside of peasant improvised weapons. But in the same way billhooks (used for forestry) and scythes (used for harvesting grain) evolved into various sorts of polearms, there do seem to have been flails made for war. Here's a picture of those from Paulus Hector Mair's 16th C combat manual Arte De Athletica.

But the studded flail I shared earlier seems to me a good one for a D&D Cleric to use. It's wooden but with metal strips running down the haft and on each face of the head (shown in cross section).

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Re: Flail and Other 2 Handers

Post by bighara » Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:49 am

AFAIK, the only mention of the flail in the BX rule books is that one in the introduction as an example. I don't think it was ever statted out in any Moldvay/Cook product.

1d8 seems fair vis a vis other 2H weapons like battle axes. Going last in the round is supposed to emulate the "set up" time for the swing, similar to crossbow reloading taking an extra round.

Keep in mind these rules are listed as optional.

Zombies still go after you, though.

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Re: Flail and Other 2 Handers

Post by William Longsword » Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:37 pm

SkinnyOrc wrote: ↑ Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:46 am But the studded flail I shared earlier seems to me a good one for a D&D Cleric to use. It's wooden but with metal strips running down the haft and on each face of the head (shown in cross section).

Also reasonable. All historicity or lack thereof aside, I'd be more apt to ignore the verbiage on X4 completely and just go "stock fantasy" one-handed (1d6). I suppose one could exchange the spiked ball for a solid one:

replace the spikes with flanges:

or just call it even with the best of both worlds:

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Re: Flail and Other 2 Handers

Post by Justisaur » Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:42 pm

Thresher flails seem quite reasonable for 2 handed use, I don't see why one would be at risk of hitting oneself, nor require any kind of set-up that would make it go last, the end bit is quite a bit shorter than the pole. Also quite good at getting around shields/parries. But it doesn't seem to be a very popular weapon, so it probably wasn't very effective.

Now the ball and chain flails seem pretty questionable, but there are some examples from Russia (more a bunch of linked bars) and Japan like the gekigan-jutsu, none with spikes however.

In AD&D there's plenty of argument over what's 2-handed and what isn't, so it isn't a really good spot to go to, though Pool of Radiance flail, mace (no horseman's/footman's differentiation,) morning star, battle axe, and military pick are all 1 handed weapons.

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Re: Flail and Other 2 Handers

Post by serleran » Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:02 pm

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Re: Flail and Other 2 Handers

Post by SkinnyOrc » Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:31 pm

William Longsword wrote: ↑ Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:37 pm All historicity or lack thereof aside, I'd be more apt to ignore the verbiage on X4 completely and just go "stock fantasy" one-handed (1d6). I suppose one could exchange the spiked ball for a solid one

I don't see much point introducing another one handed 1d6 weapon, a blunt two handed 1d8 gives clerics a new option at the cost of a shield. It does seem the heads on war flails varied a fair bit. Here's a picture from 1025 that seems to show a two hander with three balls on chains!

Justisaur wrote: ↑ Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:42 pm Thresher flails seem quite reasonable for 2 handed use, I don't see why one would be at risk of hitting oneself, nor require any kind of set-up that would make it go last, the end bit is quite a bit shorter than the pole. Also quite good at getting around shields/parries. But it doesn't seem to be a very popular weapon, so it probably wasn't very effective.

After looking into it more it does seem the key is the bit that swings is shorter than the handle so you don't hit yourself. The farm implements were that shape for a reason and the same goes as a weapon. You could do similar with a one hander, but the bit that swung would be quite short and light. It probably just wasn't very effective, especially against armour.

Justisaur wrote: ↑ Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:42 pm Now the ball and chain flails seem pretty questionable, but there are some examples from Russia (more a bunch of linked bars) and Japan like the gekigan-jutsu, none with spikes however.

Asian martial arts weapons certainly include flails you can easily hit yourself with like nunchucks, and some with really long chains. But as far as I know these weren't normal soldier weapons, they need a lot of training. A lot of the chain weapons aren't great against armour either, the opponents of an infiltrating ninja often don't get a chance to dress for battle.

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Re: Flail and Other 2 Handers

Post by ThrorII » Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:37 pm

OD&D Greyhawk called it 1d8 vs. both man-sized and larger creatures, and had a bonus to to vs. every armor class, BUT it required 6' of space on each side of the attacker to use.

In B/X terms, I'd say 1d8 damage, attacks last in initiative (like 2-H weapons).

Re: Flail and Other 2 Handers

Post by Parzival » Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:38 am

William Longsword wrote: ↑ Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:37 pm All historicity or lack thereof aside, I'd be more apt to ignore the verbiage on X4 completely and just go "stock fantasy" one-handed (1d6). I suppose one could exchange the spiked ball for a solid one

I don't see much point introducing another one handed 1d6 weapon, a blunt two handed 1d8 gives clerics a new option at the cost of a shield. It does seem the heads on war flails varied a fair bit. Here's a picture from 1025 that seems to show a two hander with three balls on chains!

Justisaur wrote: ↑ Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:42 pm Thresher flails seem quite reasonable for 2 handed use, I don't see why one would be at risk of hitting oneself, nor require any kind of set-up that would make it go last, the end bit is quite a bit shorter than the pole. Also quite good at getting around shields/parries. But it doesn't seem to be a very popular weapon, so it probably wasn't very effective.

After looking into it more it does seem the key is the bit that swings is shorter than the handle so you don't hit yourself. The farm implements were that shape for a reason and the same goes as a weapon. You could do similar with a one hander, but the bit that swung would be quite short and light. It probably just wasn't very effective, especially against armour.

Justisaur wrote: ↑ Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:42 pm Now the ball and chain flails seem pretty questionable, but there are some examples from Russia (more a bunch of linked bars) and Japan like the gekigan-jutsu, none with spikes however.

Asian martial arts weapons certainly include flails you can easily hit yourself with like nunchucks, and some with really long chains. But as far as I know these weren't normal soldier weapons, they need a lot of training. A lot of the chain weapons aren't great against armour either, the opponents of an infiltrating ninja often don't get a chance to dress for battle.

The advantage of the chain is it increase the arc of the swing. The weakness is that it’s a chain, so that when contact happens, the leverage of the hilt ceases to be a factor— there is no further momentum or power being applied to the blow. In effect, you don’t get a follow through. The ball/rod goes “thunk” and the recoil of the strike immediately happens— like hitting somebody with a stick and letting it bounce immediately back. It will hurt the target, yes— but not nearly as much as a blow that is “forced” onward.

I suppose another advantage is that it’s hard to parry— the chain simply wraps at the parry point, and the head continues forward to impact the target— or even, if long enough, possibly wrap around the parrying weapon.

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I've never noticed that mention of the flail on X4, seems like something that got missed in the editing. But I have had two handed flails in my game before, making them 1d8 so Clerics had the option of doing more damage at the cost of a shield.

The flail is often portrayed as a symbol of power, strength, and dominance. Those who choose to get the Witch King Flail Tattoo may find personal significance in the character or resonate with the themes and symbols associated with the flail and the Witch King. Some may admire the Witch King's unwavering dedication to his master, while others may appreciate the complexity of his character. The design of the tattoo can vary, allowing individuals to personalize it to their liking. Some may choose to incorporate additional elements such as surrounding imagery, quotes from the books, or other symbolic objects related to the Witch King or the flail. The tattoo can be done in black ink to reflect the dark and menacing nature of the character or be incorporated with colors to add vibrancy and depth. Like any tattoo, the Witch King Flail Tattoo is a permanent mark on one's body, symbolizing their connection to the character and the values they represent. It can serve as a reminder of personal strength, resilience, and determination, or simply as a homage to one's love for Tolkien's works. Ultimately, the choice to get the Witch King Flail Tattoo is a personal one that reflects an individual's connection to the character and the story. It is a unique and striking tattoo design that carries its own meaning for each person who chooses to wear it proudly..

Reviews for "Witch King Flail Tattoos and the Rising Popularity of Dark Fantasy Art"

1. John - 2/5 - I really didn't like the Witch King flail tattoo that I got. The design was poorly done and the lines were not clean at all. It ended up looking like a sloppy mess on my arm. Additionally, the colors used were not vibrant or well-blended, making the overall tattoo look dull and unappealing. I regret getting this tattoo and I would not recommend it to anyone.

2. Sarah - 1/5 - The Witch King flail tattoo turned out to be a huge disappointment. The artist completely misinterpreted the design, resulting in a tattoo that barely resembled what I had asked for. The proportions were off, and the details were lacking. Moreover, the shading was uneven and patchy, making the tattoo look unfinished. I am extremely dissatisfied with the final result and I would advise others to avoid getting this tattoo.

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Breaking Down the Symbolism of a Witch King Flail Tattoo