Unleashing devastating combos in KOF 2002 Magic Plus

KOF 2002 Magic Plus is a popular installment in the King of Fighters series of video games. Developed by SNK, this game was released in 2002 and quickly gained a cult following. One of the main reasons for its popularity is the addition of the "Magic Plus" system. This system allows players to perform powerful super moves and combos by inputting specific button combinations. These flashy moves not only deal massive damage to the opponent but also add a sense of excitement and intensity to the gameplay. In addition to the Magic Plus system, KOF 2002 also features an extensive roster of characters to choose from.

In addition to the Magic Plus system, KOF 2002 also features an extensive roster of characters to choose from. Players can form teams of three fighters and strategically switch between them during battles. Each character has their own unique moveset and playstyle, allowing for a varied and dynamic combat experience.

Druid attacks and amulet of mighty fists

Sorry in advance if this has been covered previously.

Debate between a player, myself and the DM.

My arguement is that the amulet of mighty fists applies to only one form of attack from a druid in wildshape form. Hence, to claws (both), to bite, or to pounce (rear claws) and not all attacks.

I based this on. the errata:

[/i]FAQ/Errata
If a creature with multiple natural attacks (such as bite/claw/claw) wears an Amulet of Mighty Fists with the speed property, does it get one extra attack with each of its natural weapons?
No. mainly because that combination is way too good for monsters with multiple attacks, and gets better the more natural attacks a monster has. Doubling a creature's attacks per round is really powerful, even for 80,000 gp (the price of a +4 amulet).[/i]

Now this talks of speed, however, I cant help but think it that applies to all magic properties/effects of the amulet. After all, for the cost of 5k gold, the shapeshifted druid would get +1d6 for bite, +1d6 x2 for claws, and +1d6 for pounce. Seems quite overbearing since a warrior for 4k would only have 1 weapon as a +1 weapon with one 1d6 effect. for 10k (or 5k creation cost) the bonus would jump to 2d6 x4 for the druid. Combine that with the shapeshift druids size modifier to dmg and strength and you have a runaway train before you know it. So a full huge tiger attack becomes 2d8+str+2d6, 2d6+str+2d6 x3. Or in other words, a ton of damage at 14d6+2d6+str dmg and this is at lv 8! Good luck.

Thoughts? Opinions? Send money?

The Amulet bonus applies to all the natural attacks. They pay a 2.5x premium for the amulet and an item slot, instead of a per weapon cost.

The FAQ cover speed. And honestly you'll run into a lot of debate as to wether or not the speed property stacks with itself on weapons. (IE two +1 speed swords, do you get 2 extra attacks.) I think the general opinion is no (though the above FAQ implies that they would), but there would be debate. With speed on the amulet they've flat out said no it doesn't stack.

They get the bonus on all attacks.

The Amulet bonus applies to all the natural attacks. They pay a 2.5x premium for the amulet and an item slot, instead of a per weapon cost.

The FAQ cover speed. And honestly you'll run into a lot of debate as to wether or not the speed property stacks with itself on weapons. (IE two +1 speed swords, do you get 2 extra attacks.) I think the general opinion is no (though the above FAQ implies that they would), but there would be debate. With speed on the amulet they've flat out said no it doesn't stack.

Opinion or fact? because if its fact, you might as well retire any dps melee classes other than the dps druid because they wont come close.

I did the math. 90 pts of damage per round at lv 8 without haste with average base str of 14 for the druid. without any additional spells or magic items. No other lv 8 melee class can come close.

How is this 2.5 x premium at 5k for an amulet +1?

The same 1handed sword would cost 4k (+1 enchanment then +1 for the flaming/shocking, etc). And its only one hand. And it takes up the hand slot.

I would think most anyone would give up a neck slot in place of a hand held slot any day of the week.

How is this 2.5 x premium at 5k for an amulet +1?

The same 1handed sword would cost 4k (+1 enchanment then +1 for the flaming/shocking, etc). And its only one hand. And it takes up the hand slot.

I would think most anyone would give up a neck slot in place of a hand held slot any day of the week.

That's not the same at all. That's a +2 sword. It costs 8,000gp (plus the cost of a mw longsword). A +1 flaming amulet of mighty fists costs 20,000gp. 8 * 2.5 = 20. You might be looking at the crafting price.

Amulets of Mighty Fists also cap out at +5 (at a whopping 125,000gp). I could own a +5 long sword for 50,000gp. Or I could own a +5 holy longsword for 98,000gp. Or a +5 holy undead bane longsword for 128,000gp. I could never own an amulet of mighty fists of equivalent power, because the amulet can hold only +5 worth of enchantments. I can own multiple weapons of equivalent power for the cost of a single amulet of mighty fists. This is how it balances. You are buying 2.5 weapons for the cost of the amulet.

The amulet applies to all attacks. If it did not, they would have called it out, as in the Magic Fang spell. The item does not state (as Magic Fang does) that you must choose one attack to enhance. It states simply that natural attacks and unarmed strikes are enhanced.

Also, 90DPR at level 8 is achieveable by multiple builds. You seem to be having a strong kneejerk reaction to this. Step back, take a look at the DPR olympics perhaps, and reconsider.

That's not the same at all. That's a +2 sword. It costs 8,000gp (plus the cost of a mw longsword). A +1 flaming amulet of mighty fists costs 20,000gp. 8 * 2.5 = 20. You might be looking at the crafting price.

Amulet of Mighty Fists

Aura faint evocation; CL 5th
Slot neck; Price 5,000 gp (+1), 20,000 gp (+2), 45,000 gp (+3), 80,000 gp (+4), 125,000 gp (+5); Weight —

Amulets of Mighty Fists also cap out at +5 (at a whopping 125,000gp). I could own a +5 long sword for 50,000gp. Or I could own a +5 holy longsword for 98,000gp. Or a +5 holy undead bane longsword for 128,000gp. I could never own an amulet of mighty fists of equivalent power, because the amulet can hold only +5 worth of enchantments. I can own multiple weapons of equivalent power for the cost of a single amulet of mighty fists. This is how it balances. You are buying 2.5 weapons for the cost of the amulet.

A +5 amulet of mighty fist equals a +6 weapon since the amulet does not require the initial +1 investment to add effects. So it is equal to the 128k +6 item you spoke of. In addition, it applies to BOTH claws where the +6 longsword applies to one hand so significantly more damage.

Also, 90DPR at level 8 is achieveable by multiple builds. You seem to be having a strong kneejerk reaction to this. Step back, take a look at the DPR olympics perhaps, and reconsider.

Please give me one build that does 90 DPR on average to a generic opponent [/b]without the use of feats nor magic items said one at 10k [/b]. Keep in mind, said druid is doing this without any other spells or magic items except for a +2 amulet of natural attacks. We arent talking about ranger favored enemies.

90 DPR sound fine for an 8th level druid. irrc the best druid in DPR olympics was somewhere at 130 DPR with the animal companion factored in.

90 DPR sound fine for an 8th level druid. irrc the best druid in DPR olympics was somewhere at 130 DPR with the animal companion factored in.

1) Was said druid buffed and/or using magic items? Did it have feats? The druid in the example was 90 DPR without buffs, feats and without any magic item other than the amulet. Also, this is factoring in a base 14 str for the druid before shifting forms. Im assuming said DPR olympic druid didnt really have to worry about much more than straight DPR and not spell casting nor stamina.

2) Im yet to see where a non BS class (such as. ugh. magius) can do 90 dpr at lv 8 under the same conditions (sans feats, equipment, buffs)

90 DPR sound fine for an 8th level druid. irrc the best druid in DPR olympics was somewhere at 130 DPR with the animal companion factored in.

1) Was said druid buffed and/or using magic items? Did it have feats? The druid in the example was 90 DPR without buffs, feats and without any magic item other than the amulet. Also, this is factoring in a base 14 str for the druid before shifting forms. Im assuming said DPR olympic druid didnt really have to worry about much more than straight DPR and not spell casting nor stamina.

2) Im yet to see where a non BS class (such as. ugh. magius) can do 90 dpr at lv 8 under the same conditions (sans feats, equipment, buffs)

There's a reason why druids are considered one of the most powerful classes in the game.

The amulet applies to all attacks.

The magus is not a BS class.

A fighter will probably having something like 2d6+2+9+2++9, or 2d6+22 damage, with two attacks. That's without buffs and without using any resources.

A barbarian should be higher than that, due to Rage and some Rage powers.

I don't remember, go check yourself (and keep in mind that this was core only, there is a feat in UC that can really help druids).
And what feats other than power attack can help the damage of a druid? (i assume that you already have factored that in otherwise there is a good chance you have done a math error)

Oh and magus isn't a BS class.

Level 8 is a sweet spot for shapeshifting druids. They will tear up everything level appropriate for the party that level if they get the gear they want.

Later on in the teens the other melee classes will pull forward again, but Druids a full casters so. yeh.

Amulet of Mighty Fists
Aura faint evocation; CL 5th
Slot neck; Price 5,000 gp (+1), 20,000 gp (+2), 45,000 gp (+3), 80,000 gp (+4), 125,000 gp (+5); Weight —

Those are the prices I quoted yes. You also stated that a +1 flaming longsword would be 4,000gp. That's the crafting price. The purchase price is 8,000gp.

A +5 amulet of mighty fist equals a +6 weapon since the amulet does not require the initial +1 investment to add effects. So it is equal to the 128k +6 item you spoke of. In addition, it applies to BOTH claws where the +6 longsword applies to one hand so significantly more damage.

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that a +5 weapon is +6 because it doesn't have a +1. A +6 weapon is 72,000gp as well, 56,000gp cheaper than the item I quoted. With 56,000gp I could buy another +5 weapon and a wondrous item with the change. 72,000gp is still significantly cheaper than a +5 amulet, even if I do choose to agree with the assumption of +5 = +6.

Please give me one build that does 90 DPR on average to a generic opponent without the use of feats nor magic items said one at 10k. Keep in mind, said druid is doing this without any other spells or magic items except for a +2 amulet of natural attacks. We arent talking about ranger favored enemies.

Show me the math that proves the druid can put out 90 DPR. My math is showing 60~DPR against a CR8 opponent, given 14 Strength, an amulet of mighty fists +2, and 8th level wild shape. Also, that's a bit of an unfair rubric. A DPR build without feats or equipment is a poor point of comparison. Also, the druid has a 20,000gp item, so giving me a 10,000gp item seems a tad unfair.

Also, that's the nature of the druid class to be able to put out signficant wildshape damage, not the amulet of mighty fists. Does equipping a monk with an amulet of mighty fists make them unbalanced? What about an unarmed fighter, natural weapon ranger, or beast totem barbarian? It sounds more like you take issue with the class using the item, not the item.

Amulet of Mighty Fists
Aura faint evocation; CL 5th
Slot neck; Price 5,000 gp (+1), 20,000 gp (+2), 45,000 gp (+3), 80,000 gp (+4), 125,000 gp (+5); Weight —

Show me the math that proves the druid can put out 90 DPR. My math is showing 60~DPR against a CR8 opponent, given 14 Strength, an amulet of mighty fists +2, and 8th level wild shape. Also, that's a bit of an unfair rubric. A DPR build without feats or equipment is a poor point of comparison. Also, the druid has a 20,000gp item, so giving me a 10,000gp item seems a tad unfair.

Also, that's the nature of the druid class to be able to put out signficant wildshape damage, not the amulet of mighty fists. Does equipping a monk with an amulet of mighty fists make them unbalanced? What about an unarmed fighter, natural weapon ranger, or beast totem.

Huge beast = +6 to str. Taking effective druid str from 14 to 20 or +5 damage.

2d8+5+2d6 (bite) + 2d6+5+2d6 (one claw) + 2d6+5+2d6 (second claw)+ 2d6+5+2d6 (pounce) = 14d6+2d8+20 = 42+8+20 = 70 so I indeed am off.

A fighter will probably having something like 2d6+2+9+2++9, or 2d6+22 damage, with two attacks. That's without buffs and without using any resources.

Again, that involves feats. Do we really want to involve feats. because if so.

That is not DPR, it's average damage in a full attack.
When calculating DPR you have to take into account the chance of each attack to hit, the chance of each attack being a critical hit, the chance of the critical hit confirming, the average damage, the precision damage (if there is one) and finally a target AC number and maybe DR.

Huge beast = +6 to str. Taking effective druid str from 14 to 20 or +5 damage.

2d8+5+2d6 (bite) + 2d6+5+2d6 (one claw) + 2d6+5+2d6 (second claw)+ 2d6+5+2d6 (pounce) = 14d6+2d8+20 = 42+8+20 = 70 so I indeed am off.

What Huge animal is that, with a 2d8 bite, 2 claws at 2d6 each, and pounce? You do know that the Dire Tiger is only Large, and that you are only allowed to morph into an unmodded animal by RAW right? So no Huge Dire Tigers, sorry. That brings the damage down significantly (-1 size category, -2 strength). That knocks about 8 damage off your estimate of 70, and that's not factoring chance to hit, crit rate, and all the rest into it, all of which a fighter will beat you at. Yes Druids are very, very, good, but they aren't heads and shoulders above everyone else.

So, average damage of the full attack of a level 8 druid in dire tiger form, assuming all attacks hit and ignoring critical chance: 62

Average damage of the full attack of a level 8 fighter, assuming all attacks hit etc. 58

And as for not factoring feats into it, we're only factoring 1 feat here (weapon specialization). Extra feats are the DEFINING CLASS FEATURE of the fighter. Saying "don't count feats" is like saying "don't count wild shape"

Huge beast = +6 to str. Taking effective druid str from 14 to 20 or +5 damage.

2d8+5+2d6 (bite) + 2d6+5+2d6 (one claw) + 2d6+5+2d6 (second claw)+ 2d6+5+2d6 (pounce) = 14d6+2d8+20 = 42+8+20 = 70 so I indeed am off.

What Huge animal is that, with a 2d8 bite, 2 claws at 2d6 each, and pounce? You do know that the Dire Tiger is only Large, and that you are only allowed to morph into an unmodded animal by RAW right? So no Huge Dire Tigers, sorry. That brings the damage down significantly (-1 size category, -2 strength). That knocks about 8 damage off your estimate of 70, and that's not factoring chance to hit, crit rate, and all the rest into it, all of which a fighter will beat you at. Yes Druids are very, very, good, but they aren't heads and shoulders above everyone else.

So, average damage of the full attack of a level 8 druid in dire tiger form, assuming all attacks hit and ignoring critical chance: 62

Average damage of the full attack of a level 8 fighter, assuming all attacks hit etc. 58

And as for not factoring feats into it, we're only factoring 2 feats here (both weapon specializations). Those extra feats are the DEFINING CLASS FEATURE of the fighter. Saying "don't count feats" is like saying "don't count wild shape"

There is the allosaurus from bestiary 2, huge size, 2d8 bite, 2 claws 1d8 each, 2 rake 1d8 each, pounce and rake.

There is the allosaurus from bestiary 2, huge size, 2d8 bite, 2 claws 1d8 each, 2 rake 1d8 each, pounce and rake.

Wow, that's a good animal. Well, those claws are only 1d8, not 2d6, so the math is more or less the same. Does he have grab too?

There is the allosaurus from bestiary 2, huge size, 2d8 bite, 2 claws 1d8 each, 2 rake 1d8 each, pounce and rake.

Wow, that's a good animal. Well, those claws are only 1d8, not 2d6, so the math is more or less the same. Does he have grab too?

Only with it's bite irrc, yes it's a very good animal although the huge size is kinda of a problem a few times.

Also, damage resistance, and elemental resistance will both cut down on the damage of the druid significantly as compared to the fighter, and the fact that the druid can't speak the command word to turn on and off the amulet in wild shape is also a major pain at times.

Let's assume the huge tiger is legal for a second, using the stats given.

Relevant Gear:
holy amulet of mighty fists (cost: 20,000gp)

Full Attack: Bite +11 (2d8+5 +2d6), 2 claws +11 (2d6+5 +2d6)
SA: pounce, rake (2 claws +11 (2d6+5 +2d6)

AVG damage for attacks
Bite: 14 + 7
Claws: 12 + 7
Rake: 12 + 7

AVG AC for CR8: 21

To Hit Chance: 65% (+13 vs AC21, assuming pounce/charge)
Crit Chance: 5%

Using A Man In Black's formula from the DPR Olympics.

.65(14+7)+(.05*1*.65*14) = 14.105 (Bite)
.65(12+7)+(.05*1*.65*14)*4 = 51.22 (Claws + Rake)
Total = 65.325 DPR

AVG hit points for CR8: 100

So, on average, an 8th level druid with nothing but a holy amulet of mighty fists (or flaming/shocking, corrosive/frost, whatever) could deal more than half the total hit points a CR8 might possess in a single round by expending a use of a 3/daily ability and using an amulet that amounts to almost 2/3rds of your WBL (20,000/33,000gp).

In order to execute this attack, the druid needs a straight line through a corridor at least 15ft tall and 25ft long for a minimum of 10ft of unobstructed terrain, 15ft across (3x2 square area) to charge through. The position of allies, position of enemies not being charged, difficult terrain, and other factors limit the ability of a huge creature to charge and gain the benefits of pounce. But, under those conditions, and without factoring in feats or the remaining 13,000gp worth of equipment, the druid can deal a hefty amount of damage, likely in excess of a fighter with similar restrictions.

Does this cover your concerns?

+1 to shiverscar

Let's assume the huge tiger is legal for a second, using the stats given.

** spoiler omitted **

So, on average, an 8th level druid with nothing but a holy amulet of mighty fists (or flaming/shocking, corrosive/frost, whatever) could deal more than half the total hit points a CR8 might possess in a single round by expending a use of a 3/daily ability and using an amulet that amounts to almost 2/3rds of your WBL (20,000/33,000gp).

In order to execute this attack, the druid needs a straight line through a corridor at least 15ft tall and 25ft long for a minimum of 10ft of unobstructed terrain, 15ft across (3x2 square area) to charge through. The position of allies, position of enemies not being charged, difficult terrain, and other factors limit the ability of a huge creature to charge and gain the benefits of pounce. But, under those conditions, and without factoring in feats or the remaining 13,000gp worth of equipment, the druid can deal a hefty amount of damage, likely in excess of a fighter with similar restrictions.

Does this cover your concerns?

If Taason desires not to let the others use feats or equipment, I see no reason to give the druid an AoMF.

Also, your math on the claws is off, since it's 12 damage on crits, not 14.

So, when using an extremely limited resource to turn into one of the most powerful animals in the game at that level (if not the most powerful), the DPR is actually 42.315.

Is that more DPR than an equivalent level fighter without any feats or equipment? Yes. Why is that? Because he has more attacks at a higher bonus. Simple as that. It's nothing to do with the Amulet. The pouncing kitty druid will out damage him without it. And he'll be able to move around the battlefield while out damaging.

If he wants to spend 2/3rds of his wealth on one item that can easily be stolen or sundered, I see no problem. Once the BBEG learns of this though, there'll sure as hell be a ton of thieves after him.

Is it really that surprising that the guy with more attacks at a higher BAB is doing more damage?

Is it really that surprising that the guy with more attacks at a higher BAB is doing more damage?

The gameplay in KOF 2002 is fast-paced and requires quick reflexes and precise timing. Players must master the various moves and combos of their chosen fighters in order to emerge victorious in intense battles against AI opponents or other players. KOF 2002 Magic Plus has left a lasting impact on the fighting game community. Its combination of flashy moves, diverse roster, and challenging gameplay has made it a staple in competitive gaming tournaments and a favorite among fans of the genre. Its timeless appeal and addictive gameplay ensure that it will continue to be enjoyed by fighting game enthusiasts for years to come..

Reviews for "The impact of KOF 2002 Magic Plus on the competitive fighting game scene"

1. John - 1/5 stars - Kof 2002 magic olus was a huge disappointment for me. The graphics were outdated and the gameplay felt sluggish. The controls were unresponsive and it made it extremely difficult to enjoy playing. Additionally, there was a lack of variety in characters and game modes, which made the experience repetitive and boring. Overall, I do not recommend this game to any fighting game enthusiasts as it fails to deliver on multiple fronts.

2. Emily - 2/5 stars - Kof 2002 magic olus didn't live up to my expectations. The graphics were mediocre and the animation felt stiff. The sound effects were lackluster and didn't add any excitement to the gameplay. I also found the difficulty level to be inconsistent, with some fights being too easy and others feeling almost impossible to win. The lack of an engaging story or campaign mode was also disappointing. Ultimately, I was left feeling unsatisfied and would not recommend this game to others.

3. David - 2/5 stars - Unfortunately, Kof 2002 magic olus fell short for me. The character selection was limited, and the ones available lacked uniqueness or interesting abilities. The controls were clunky and made it difficult to execute special moves consistently. The AI was also poorly balanced, with the opponents being either too easy or frustratingly hard to defeat. Despite some nostalgic elements, this game failed to capture my attention or keep me engaged for long periods of time. I would suggest considering other options within the fighting game genre.

Defeating the toughest opponents in KOF 2002 Magic Plus