A magical ammunition backup base is a concept that revolves around the idea of storing and safeguarding magical ammunition for future use. In the world of magic, ammunition refers to enchanted objects or spells that can be used for casting spells or engaging in magical combat. The main purpose of a backup base is to ensure that there is always a supply of magical ammunition readily available, especially during times of need or emergency. The base serves as a repository for storing various types of magical ammunition, ranging from enchanted objects to spell scrolls and potions. Security plays a crucial role in a magical ammunition backup base. These bases are often hidden or protected by powerful spells and enchantments to prevent unauthorized access.
The Attack Rolls section in PHB says (emphasis mine):
For the former case, the word appropriate leads to include any kind of bonuses the weapon or ammo gives, unless the description specify the exceptions. In theory in first edition you could make a Green Arrow character who has many different types for every occasion, but in practice you probably just have one type of go-to arrow, in which case you just enchant the bow instead.
These bases are often hidden or protected by powerful spells and enchantments to prevent unauthorized access. The bases may be located in remote and highly secure locations such as magical forests, hidden caves, or even beneath ancient ruins. Furthermore, the magical ammunition backup bases are often overseen by skilled and knowledgeable wizards or magical beings who understand the intricacies of magical ammunition.
magic ammunition such as Flaming Arrows?
Items like this, that provide a one-time +1d6 fire damage bonus, is not especially rare to see in D&D adventures.
But it does not seem Pathfinder 2 offers official support for them in the CRB.
I do see the Flaming rune*. But my question is: what about a "consumable"** Flaming rune that a Ranged character can benefit from? Or, in other words, Flaming arrows :-)
Question: have I missed something or is there no magic ammo with bonus damage?
Question: what would be the expected price if there was?
(That is, in your best opinion, following the general frameworks of this edition, at what level should something like a Flaming ammo be pegged? Do note there is SOME precedence: things like "oil of Keen Edges" that pretty much is a consumable Keen rune.)
*) meaning that if you can get bonus damage from a "Flaming Bow" there's no game-play or balance reason not to allow Flaming Arrows as well.
**) not all ammo is consumables but I expect this to be
It you are trying to find an extra font of dmg, there are not.
You can enchant your weapon with the rune you want, but that's it.
You want to set some hay on fire? You can rule it with your DM by using oil on an arrow.
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Do Explosive Ammunition and Storm Arrow not count?
I think it was consciously cut from the game. In theory in first edition you could make a Green Arrow character who has many different types for every occasion, but in practice you probably just have one type of go-to arrow, in which case you just enchant the bow instead.
Magic ammo is a thing still, but they are special specific ammo, not just any rune. I think it's to prevent ranged characters from getting double runes, from weapon and from ammo, instead you just get weapon runes.
The expected price should be fairly high, since stacking runes as mentioned above would be a very powerful boon which would be more valuable than simply adding an extra rune to the bow. Compare to the non-damage boosting ammo that exists, or maybe to the alchemical bombs, to try and come up with a number, keeping this in mind.
K1 wrote:It you are trying to find an extra font of dmg, there are not.
Thank you (in so much I shouldn't keep looking for what's not there)
Quote:You can enchant your weapon with the rune you want, but that's it.
You want to set some hay on fire? You can rule it with your DM by using oil on an arrow.
No I want to hand out a Flaming (or Frost or whatev) Rune, except not on a permanent basis.
A happy middle-ground between "yes, you get +1d6 fire damage forever" and "no".
Lots of examples of this in scenarios for previous editions
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Do Explosive Ammunition and Storm Arrow not count?
No, they do count, except I was looking for something relevant to the mid single-digit levels. Thank you.
More specifically, what to do when a d20 scenario gives out "three Flaming arrows". Something even a level 1 character could get their hands on without any fuss.
Obviously the answer is "but hand out three Flaming arrows then" :-) . but what if the party sells them. What is the market price? What is the level?
In PF2 terms, using your best efforts to mimic any offical thinking (that is, following CRB precedent. Am not interested in things like "the price of a consumable is too high, so I'm putting it at 1/50th like before".
BellyBeard wrote:I think it was consciously cut from the game. In theory in first edition you could make a Green Arrow character who has many different types for every occasion, but in practice you probably just have one type of go-to arrow, in which case you just enchant the bow instead.
Magic ammo is a thing still, but they are special specific ammo, not just any rune. I think it's to prevent ranged characters from getting double runes, from weapon and from ammo, instead you just get weapon runes.
The expected price should be fairly high, since stacking runes as mentioned above would be a very powerful boon which would be more valuable than simply adding an extra rune to the bow. Compare to the non-damage boosting ammo that exists, or maybe to the alchemical bombs, to try and come up with a number, keeping this in mind.
I think your theory "I think it was consciously cut from the game" is interesting, except I must shoot down your arguments :)
The game already says magic ammo suppresses any property runes on the bow or crossbow (unless the specific ammo says otherwise) so that's not a concern.
And I am not sure the Green Arrow character is relevant to the matter at hand. After all, I'm looking to hand out a few bonus fire d6's. The fact this won't change the life quality of an enchanter shouldn't be held against this desire. :)
The price for stacking effects is fortunately not up for discussion. But you're right such a price would be stratospheric indeed (even a level 20 character would want free bonus damage!)
Probably Spellstrike Ammunition:
https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=167
Lvl 3 item, *12 gp a pop, can store lvl 1 spells.
If you want them to be ready-to-go nukes, then say they've already got lvl 1 shocking grasps stored in them.
2d12 lightning damage, probably just give them the standard lvl 1 DC (15) - just realised doesn't need a DC, its a straight ranged attack.
Swap out the damage type for whatever you want.
These would be a bit powerful for a lvl 1 character, so might want to reduce the number.
Zapp wrote:And I am not sure the Green Arrow character is relevant to the matter at hand. After all, I'm looking to hand out a few bonus fire d6's. The fact this won't change the life quality of an enchanter shouldn't be held against this desire. :)
Yeah sorry, that was posted before I knew why you were asking. Also didn't see the part in the book about overwriting your bow's runes, thanks for pointing it out, that means they aren't as powerful as I first thought.
If we did the PF1 thing of 1/50 price they would be 10 GP each (it makes a good starting point for comparisons). If these arrows are going to be Flaming arrows with the crit rider, I would say that sounds about right.
Compare to moderate alchemist's fire, also 10 GP. The arrow will do d8 or d6 + d6 fire, and on crit will add d10 persistent fire. The bomb will get +1 to hit, do 2d8 fire, 2 splash, and 2 persistent fire. On crit bomb damage is doubled but not the other effects. The arrow obviously has better range too. So the bomb is probably better DPS in the general case of a close enemy with low crit chance, but the arrow is more valuable from farther away and with higher crit chances. So compared to the moderate alchemist's fire I think a Flaming arrow is either equal value or slightly below.
Hope this helps! :)
BellyBeard wrote:If we did the PF1 thing of 1/50 price
Edit: What I am specifically looking for is PF2-talk like "the Flaming rune is a permanent level 8 rune, so the one-time ammunition should be a level N consumable.
If we go with level 8, that's 40 gold (or thereabouts).
(Then if we want you or I can take this information and go "that feels a wee bit too expensive so let's make it level X instead". At least we have the baseline.)
What I want y'all to do is give me input on what level is appropriate :) Level 8 is just my guess, after all.
There might be precedent in the form of existing items that suggest that "equal level" isn't the intended "formula" after all, what do I know :)
(Then if we want you or I can take this information and go "that feels a wee bit too expensive so let's make it level X instead". At least we have the baseline.)
These individuals are responsible for the upkeep of the base, ensuring that the ammunition remains intact and ready for use at any given time. The concept of a magical ammunition backup base adds depth and complexity to magical worlds, as it provides a plausible explanation for the availability and access to magical ammunition. It also enhances the sense of realism and believability within the magical universe, as it introduces the idea of supply and demand even in the realm of magic. In conclusion, a magical ammunition backup base is a hidden and secure location where various types of magical ammunition are stored and maintained. These bases serve as a crucial resource to ensure the availability and accessibility of magical ammunition in times of need or emergency..
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